"We are in darkness. We are sleepwalking," said John Sentamu, Archbishop of York, referring to the crisis we find ourselves in, both as a divided society and with regard to the climate emergency. Despite this, he says he is full of hope, because "People no longer accept the status quo".
Sentamu, interviewed by Rhidian Brook, novelist and regular contributor to Radio 4's Thought for the Day, was asked how important truth was today, in a not so heavily veiled reference to politicians. "Lies will trip you up," was the reply. "Truth is much simpler to stick to."
Sentamu came to UK in 1974, forced to flee Uganda after antagonising Idi Amin when he was expelling all Ugandan Asians. Sentamu was a High Court judge there and confronted the President, who took his revenge.
But there were obstacles to face in Britain, too. He achieved a doctorate at Cambridge and became a vicar in Richmond, where he experienced horrific racism. At a funeral, the son of the deceased said to him, "What did my dad do to be buried by a black man?" There was excrement pushed through his letterbox, and his house was set on fire after the adopted two young children.
In contrast, as Archbishop of York he has been welcomed with love and affection, to the extent he was nominated Yorkshireman of the Year in 2007, sponsored, he added with a smile, by Black Sheep Brewery.
Speaking out about divisions in our society, he said, "Nobody in this country should go hungry. Why are children starving and parents having to go to food banks? Inequality is causing so many problems.""
Finishing on another positive note, the Archbishop, who retires in June 2020, said, "Hope is believing in spite of the evidence, and watching the evidence change."